2014 Frame Off Restoration

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:50 am

I have to pipe up about mix & match parts for the CA95. The bike below

I built it from scratch. Not one part is original. The engine top is a 1965, the bottom is a 64, the head and cylinders are '64 a few transmission gears are '62. I took 3 bad engines, a 1962, 1964 and a 1965 and built one. I actually assembled the engine with old pistons with new rings and it ran. Later on (last year) I bored the cylinder, added new pistons, rings, wrist pins and a valve job because the engine burned oil. Now it's my daily rider and runs like a top.

Not to debunk Sam's advice of BTL's expertise, after all they out rank me in every way, but to point out that these little Honda's have a lot of interchangeable parts and Honda was/is the industry leader of production standardization. So swap away (IMO)

ByTheLake · Post by **ByTheLake** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:27 am

Ha, I'm forever a student here, Chip. I've only restored one of these little beasts, while half of them on the road today can trace their lineage to your garage. Good info.

Sounds like Doug is acquiring parts at a rapid clip, anyway.

Colorado66 · Post by **Colorado66** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:06 pm

That is a sweet looking bike..! That's awesome you built it from scratch!
Feeling better about this project all the time.

Speaking of parts... there are half rings (set rings) used to align the transmission bearings in the upper case.
Are there supposed to be four (4) altogether for upper and lower? Or just the upper case?
As I started pre-fitting things I could only find one of the set rings, so I either lost one or three of them.
I've since ordered two off ebay, which means I'll either have an extra or still need one.

VegeKev · Post by **VegeKev** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:14 pm

only two required....

Colorado66 · Post by **Colorado66** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:25 pm

The new case showed up yesterday and as luck would have it they left one of the set rings in place... so now I have two extra's on their way

Went to drop off parts to be re-chromed today only to find out the place I've used previously has gone out of business. There is no one in Denver that chrome plates anymore so I'm going to have to ship these parts out.

Sent the below picture to several shops across the country asking for quotes.

What do you all think these pieces will end up costing?

Do you think I'm leaving any pieces out? The headlamp ring is NOS, so I wont need it done.

Wondering if there are new parts out there that would be more economical to purchase than re-chrome.

Thanks for opinions/recommendations and guidance

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:12 pm

I have used:http://www.nashvilleplatingservice.com/ and http://www.brownsplating.com/

Nashville plating is less expensive but Browns plating is by far the best. Hold on to your shorts when you get the estimates. Chrome, nickel and hazardous chemical disposal has increased the cost of plating. I will guess in the $350-$500 range. The tank panels will take up most of the cost.

Buffing the chrome with gold rouge and a good set of wheels can bring out the chrome nicely. The bike I pictured above had no re-chrome, just buffed out and waxed.

But since you asked...IMO, I would not re-chrome the brake peddle. I suggest using this aftermarket kick start arm http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-C110-C111 ... 5c&vxp=mtr

I would shop for a clean shifter and lower fork covers and buy some chrome polish for the shock lowers and newly found parts above.

So plating the tank panels and handlebars will keep you in below $400. Be advised that I may be estimating low. I paid $380 for the same parts in 2008

ByTheLake · Post by **ByTheLake** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:30 pm

I was going to guess $500, so it sounds like I was in the ballpark.

Are the handlebars bent? They appear so in the picture. You may want to straighten them before sending them for re-plating.

Colorado66 · Post by **Colorado66** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:52 pm

ByTheLake wrote:I was going to guess $500, so it sounds like I was in the ballpark.

Are the handlebars bent? They appear so in the picture. You may want to straighten them before sending them for re-plating.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure if the right one is bent forward or the left one bent backward. What do you think?

Spokes, thanks for the tips on the chrome platers, I'm sending them requests for quotes as well.
In the back of my mind I was thinking it would be $400-$600, which has my shorts full to capacity.
I'll post back on here what I end up with.

Colorado66 · Post by **Colorado66** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:50 pm

Well the quotes came back in for re-chroming those parts, they ranged $600 - $760

I think I'll reduce the number of parts to be plated.

The engine is starting to come together, just waiting on the new timing chain before continuing.

Regarding the valves and setting clearance, can they be set using the feeler gauge between the back of the lobe and the rocker shown below rather than at the valve stem? It's just easier to get to with it disassembled.
Since I can see the back side of the lobes it's easy to line up then set the gap... is that the right spot for the cam to be on the lifters to take the measurement?
I'm sure you can tell by my questions I haven't done this before so appreciate all the help I can get.

Thanks!

ByTheLake · Post by **ByTheLake** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:17 pm

Really coming along quickly - very nice. I'm not surprised at the chrome plating cost estimates. I had similar estimates, so it was less costly to buy tank panels that were in decent condition than to re-plate.

My thoughts on the valve lash measurements...

Once the engine is assembled and mounted, you'll have only one way to measure the valve lash anyway - through the adjustment ports. Besides, the valve stem is a flat surface rather than curved like the cam and follower, so you'll likely get a more accurate reading. It's probably best to avoid any chances of scuffing the polished surfaces of the cams and followers, even though the feeler gauge is fairly smooth itself. I suppose your method will get you close enough for an initial start-up.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:29 pm

My advice regarding setting the rocker clearance is rogue. There are set procedures for doing this adjustment, but I don't follow them. Maybe BTL and/or Sam will chime in. My daily rider starts in an instant and runs quiet.

Clean the adjuster stem threads and nut free of oil. Pick any rocker for the first adjustment. Rotate the cam until the rocker is sloppy. Adjust the stem down until you feel just a little slop. Lift the tappet up and down until you hear a faint "tap" Apply locktite to the threads, screw on the nut. Tighten the nut while holding the square stem head. After the final tightening, feel the rocker and make sure just a little slop and be able to move the rocker up and down hearing just a faint "tap" I think the actual clearance is .002 or so, but when ever I tried to adjust by the book, my engine sounded like the rockers needed adjustment.

The chrome prices are wild for sure. You would be amazed what a buffing motor, wheel and some gold rouge can do. A $100 -$125 investment that goes a long way.

ByTheLake · Post by **ByTheLake** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:17 pm

Chip, I do something similar when setting the valve lash on my little '65 Honda Super Cub. When I adjust to spec, it doesn't sound or run as well, but when I adjust using "the force", basically by feel and sound, the little bike runs and sounds great.

I wish my DOHC Triumph was as easy to adjust.

gbaumgratz · Post by **gbaumgratz** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:45 am

Colorado66 wrote:I wish, he only had the one key.

Could someone please recommend a sprocket combination?

Since the front and rear sprockets are worn out and I need a new chain, what tooth counts would be a good match up for speeds under 50 and mountain driving?
Thanks!

I haven't been on here in quite some time but the email updates I get brought me back when I saw a new restoration started. As for the key you can also try: http://hondakeys.com Mark has quite a few keys and I have purchased from him in the past. The only pain is the cash, check, or MO payment plans.

Greg

Sam Green · Post by **Sam Green** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:13 pm

I've never set the tappets with the motor in the bike since 66 when it was my daily ride.
With racing these bikes, the motor is in and out all the time and the tappets get done on the bench before the motor goes back in.
I think I've mentioned it on here before, I do it by ear, when you've done it that many times, you get to know what it should sound like.
There isn't a problem with setting them on the base of the cam, you will get the same reading. If you end up with noisy tappets, you might want to check that your valve surface's are not worn. I've never seen a hollow in a Benly valve but I do know it happens on some other bikes.

Sam.

Colorado66 · Post by **Colorado66** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:28 pm

Got the parts back from the paint stripper this week.
They did a chemical dip on the tank and chain guard, the rest were media blasted. $110 for everything.. not bad.
Good news, most of the parts were in great rust free condition, bad news the lower chain guard is trashed. I'll use the piece for practicing my filler skills and have since located a really nice set of chain guards, so back to the paint stripper when they arrive.

Here's the parts in clean raw metal:

Notice I already started practicing my bondo skills

That piece will not be used on this restoration.

My mufflers are rusted through so bought some Bangkok ones. They are nice but not at all like the originals.