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The Honda CA95 / Benly 150 Restoration The little brother to the CA160 in our family of Hondas

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  #1  
Unread 05-12-2015, 07:13 PM
Mucci Mucci is offline
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Default Popped 2nd Shorai Battery in 200 miles. Need electrical help

I've been putting miles on the CA95 I rebuilt for the past few months now, dialing everything in. I'm up to about 200 miles and have popped 2 brand new Shorai Lithium 6V batteries.

Could someone help me diagnose this issue? I'm not an electrical guru and need to get this sorted for a client asap.

Battery specs: SHORAI LFX Lithium-Iron Powersports battery, 18Ah PbEq 6V eq, CCA 270

I upgraded the rectifier to a 42 Amp Oregon Motorcycle Parts 3 wire unit (listed for this bike):
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/rectifiers.html

Could this be a regulation issue? How do these bikes regulate voltage without a regulator?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. - Dave
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  #2  
Unread 05-13-2015, 02:42 AM
Spokes Spokes is offline
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At the risk of opening a can of "electrical" worms (opinions) I would suggest using a standard used rectifier and the original style battery http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NOS-Wisc...c7305c&vxp=mtr

Based on personally building four CA95's and three CA160's (and one waiting to be assembled) I have never had an electrical issue using standard parts.

I feel that upgrading the rectifier and battery type sounds logical, but in my opinion, one cannot buy a new saddle for an old horse and expect new horse performance...
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  #3  
Unread 05-13-2015, 05:46 AM
Mucci Mucci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokes View Post
At the risk of opening a can of "electrical" worms (opinions) I would suggest using a standard used rectifier and the original style battery http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NOS-Wisc...c7305c&vxp=mtr

Based on personally building four CA95's and three CA160's (and one waiting to be assembled) I have never had an electrical issue using standard parts.

I feel that upgrading the rectifier and battery type sounds logical, but in my opinion, one cannot buy a new saddle for an old horse and expect new horse performance...
I only wish it were that easy at this point. The bike is customized quite a bit. We made an electronics box with mounting for everything and moved it all inside the frame. The smaller Shorai allowed us to do this. I also got the rectifier recommendation from other CA95 owners as a good upgrade from the stock unit.

From a bit of research it looks like these bikes rely on the draw from other components to regulate their voltage, is that correct?

I had a headlight out at the time this last battery popped (and LED tail lights). I'm wondering if those would have contributed to overflow voltage in the already finicky Lithium. Does that make sense?
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  #4  
Unread 05-13-2015, 08:42 AM
Mucci Mucci is offline
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Can someone tell me of this bike is single phase or three phase? I can't find the info anywhere...
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  #5  
Unread 05-13-2015, 01:54 PM
Spokes Spokes is offline
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I wish Member BTL would chime in.

But, having just read my manual. We have an AC dynamo-Selenium Rectifier (Original Type)-DC current out.

We have a 6 pole dynamo. All cells are used when lights are on. At 3700 rpm you have +6.5 volts. Somehow, not all dynamo's are used when not needed, thus no need for a regulator.

My guess is the system is single phase

Rearranging the wiring should not be an issue.

Having a head light out or LED stop light bulb should not be an issue.

My guess (again) is to use a regular rectifier or perhaps a 6 volt regulator to stop cooking the battery.
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  #6  
Unread 05-13-2015, 09:15 PM
Mucci Mucci is offline
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Today we bought a 6V AGM battery (for a CB92) and did some testing.

We tested the voltage at the battery at idle with all lighting turned on - 6.3-6.4V
Tested voltage at battery, all lighting on, while holding the bike at maybe 5-6k rpm - 7-7.2V max.
Tested voltage with headlight unplugged (simulating when my headlight went out and the battery popped) at idle - 6.8V
Tested voltage with headlight out, holding at 5-6k rpm - 8+V

The Shorai states that voltage over 7.6V is damaging to the battery. With a headlight out the voltage in the battery is allowed to build up too much for the Lithium battery to handle, which is likely why it popped. I was making high rev pulls and decelerations to brake in the new engine, so it was probably really taking a beating.

We found a Bosch 6V regulator for a Harley Sprint / BMW R27 that we're going to incorporate into the system as a fail safe if any lighting goes out again. It was a real bitch trying to find a 6V negative earth regulator. Podtronics USED to make one but I guess he's in his old age now and not making them much anymore. Most brit bikes are positive earth we found out.

Also, after talking to Ricks Motorsport Electrics they were convinced the CA95 is single phase. Their reasoning was single phase usually has a single wire going to the rectifier, or sometimes is split into two. 3 phase typically has 3 wires going to the rectifier, all the same color. The CA95 has only 2 wires going to the rectifier.

Just all FYI for anyone else with this issue in the future.
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  #7  
Unread 05-14-2015, 02:58 AM
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Roberd42 Roberd42 is offline
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Good to know, thanks for the info. I know I had been told the battery was the only regulation unit on the bike and switching to a 12v battery and 12v bulbs, the bike would become 12v converted. 12v may have been an option if you couldn't find an applicable regulator, sounds like you got that sorted. I'm not sure why it would
Over charge with a good 6v battery in circuit.

I'm using the yellow top lead acid battery and Oregon cycles rectifier, all of my bulbs are low draw LED (headlight included) and it doesn't over charge at all.
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