Can't get it started... some but little spark.

[srq68]

Hi all, I'm new to this list, but I made sure I read all the important threads and applied all the knowledge provided before bothering you with yet another "Can't get it started" question...
Background: in the final stages of assembling a CA95 from 65 that hadn't run for who knows how long. I did a complete resto of every part that could be taken appart, except for the engine block/cylinder. This is my 4th bike resto and all the others were successful.
I adjusted the valves, cleaned the carb, checked and adjusted the points, tested the coil, have fresh new battery on charge, yet, can't get it started.
At first I had no spark at all, at the plugs and at the points. When testing the coil I realized that the bottom position on the key did not provide juice to the coils, the first up did. So now I have some spark when I hit the starter button. The issue is that the sparks are not consistent. They start regular with rotation then slow down as the starter motor slows down, to finally completely stop.
I tried the kick start but of course I cant see the points from up there.
I only got two "BANG" coming from the exhaust pipes, I mean gunshot loud. Nothing else.
What is wrong with my electric system?

Also, the pipe from the breather at the top of the cylinders, where does it go to? Any oil fumes coming out of that would eventually clog the air filter after a while if the pipe goes there, no?
Thanks!

[Spokes]

We don't mind the questions about non-starting. It is always interesting what the final answer is.

The shot gun blast is always timing in my book. We learned a great solution about timing recently.
Remove the lobe collar on the spark advance mechanism and rotate it 180 degrees. Then the next suggestion would be:

1.)Adjust the valve lash. set the gap to .0003 -.0004 Set the flywheel timing mark to the fixed mark on the stator. Remove the tappet caps and set whatever side is "loose". When finished rotate the flywheel 360 degrees and set the otherside. Of course, check the valve clearance before doing anything.

2.)Make sure that the green wire going to the condenser has not rubbed through and grounding out. I have seen this before as well.

If still no go,

3.)Here is a quick and dirty way to check the cam/crankshaft timing.

Remove the cam shaft cover and set the "O" at 12 oclock high. Remove the points and spark advance and check the position of the crankshaft keyway.
The keyway should be at 12 oclock as well. If no, theen you have to correct it.

The breather on top of the cylinder does go into the air filter as well as the small vent pipe next to the carb on the insulator.

Good luck!

[srq68]

Thanks, I'll try that in the morning.
The valve clearance have been checked already but I'll try the rest.
I'll post my results.

[srq68]

I posted pictures of the progress in my albums...
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...&pictureid=290
Granted the job started about 3 years ago. New wife and baby in between....

[srq68]

Well here is what I did today:

"Remove the lobe collar on the spark advance mechanism and rotate it 180 degrees" this seems to be a good idea as it was quite dirty and needed a good cleaning anyways. Plus I think it was not correct in the first place because when I tried to adjust the timing by rotating the plate with the points, the lobe was nowhere near the "begining to close" zone, more like the opening area. But still a no go.

1.)Valve lash and clearances were adjusted yesterday...

2.)Made sure that the green wire going to the condenser has not rubbed through and grounding out, I even trimmed it a bit and expose new clean copper to be sure. But still a no go.

3.)Checked the alignment of crankshaft timing with the camshaft, they both align at 12 oclock.But still a no go.

I put gas in, tried both starter with charged battery with charger on 10 amps in addition, tried the kick start, last resort: I went out and pushed it in 2nd gear for about 1,000 feet (not fun in the Florida summer), and still nothing, not a sput, spat or spit, zilch.

What perplexes me - and I think I need to focus there - is that there is a spark at the plugs and at the points, but it is not consistent, and not a strong one, I see it but I don't hear it. When I tested my coil, I got 1.8-1.9 ohms at the leads. Maybe it is not enough to get a hot spark?

Also, the starter motor runs strong the first 2-3 seconds then slows down a bit, and the red wire (with fuse) at the battery tends to warm up a bit. I disconnected, cleaned and reconnected the battery wires, but none of it helped. The motor has new brushes...

I am getting frustrated now, but I don't give up yet...
One thing I will try later it check the compression in the cylinders. It feels strong, even a little compression should make the engine run or sputter a bit if everything else works....

Of course I'll take any suggestions to try anything....

[Spokes]

Well we are down to the real basics.

Before you go on. Make ABSOLUTLY SURE your points are oil free! Oil on the points will prevent starting for sure! If the spark advance cam was dirty I would bet the rent the points are contaminated. Clean the points. Take a piece of thick white or light colored paper (matchbook thickness) and run it through the point contacts. If dirty repeat the steps until clean. Attempt to start the bike.

Plugs. If they are old they may need to be replaced. When old plugs get saturated with fuel they can fail or produce a weak spark. I have seen this first hand.

Condenser. It would be worth a shot to replace it.

Coil. The OHM reading is "lowish" The readings on mine were 2.5-3.0 Look for any signs of wax drips on the casing. Wax drips indicate that the coil was once overheated (leave the ignition on without the engine running and by chance the points were in the closed position) If there are wax drips..replace the coil.

But before you do anything, make sure the points are clean and the plugs are good.

Generally the starter will slow down quickly as your battery weakens. The new batteries sold for these bikes only last a short while (1 maybe 2 years).

The cheap batteries off of ebay are low cold crank amp types. I don't think the battery is a fault here. The CA160 I recently sold started in a nanosecond. So once you get the no start issue solved then you woun't tax the battery so much.

[srq68]

Yep, the points are clean, real clean. I ran 800 grit sand paper to clean them first then a cloth with carb cleaner. I did the cloth thing each time I checked the gap because my feeler gauges are oily to prevent rusting.

I noticed 2 things this AM when working on the system: the spark advancer has "CB92 stamped on it, so that mean someone messed with it before, or both bikes used the same part?
The other one is that the condenser has a depression in it from what appears a wrench that rubbed on it while on the center cam bolt. It is more than a surface scratch, it's actually a recessed bump. So I got one on ebay just to be sure. I also splurged and got a "tested" coil off ebay. we'll see once these are replaced how it behaves.....
Thanks for the help so far Spokes.

[Spokes]

Your welcome. I think the spark advance is original for your bike. If I remember right, I have seen the same thing on a couple of CA95 engines.

The coil replacement can't hurt. If the spark plug wires are crappy, you can replace them with 7mm snowmobile spark plug wire. (ebay) All you need to do is chip away the sealant around the spark plug wire at the coil body and pull out the old wire. Insert the new wire and reseal with an automotive sealant or epoxy them in. You can get new caps at www.hondaminitrail.com for low money.

The dent in the condenser is suspect. If you get it before the coil, pop it in for kicks and grins.

We will all be interested in the final solution. Sometimes it is the smallest thing that causes the greatest agony.

[Sam Green]

Hi rsq, carry on doing as Chip (spokes) says and you'll get there in the end.
Don't worry about the CB92 spark advancer, all the Benly series twins from 58 through to 65 had the same advancer. I'm not sure where I got it from or where it is now but I had an advancer that I took off a motor marked C90, the very first 125cc twin, there was no difference at all.

Sam.

[Sam Green]

Originally Posted by srq68

I posted pictures of the progress in my albums...
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...&pictureid=290
Granted the job started about 3 years ago. New wife and baby in between....

You said pictures, I only see one

Sam.

[srq68]

Thanks Sam, I wont loose hope!
There are several pix in my album in my profile. Maybe this link will help: http://www.fourwheelforum.com/album.php?albumid=26
Thanks again

[Sam Green]

That's better, I guess you like RED.

Sam.

[srq68]

OK, making some progress.. Got the coil from eBay this week and I tested it at 1.6-1.7 ohms, a bit disappointing of course. But today I tried it in the bike just in case, and I get a regular and good spark now, so I installed it instead of the original one that gave me sporadic spark.
I still want to replace the condenser that is coming soon.

Starting tests: still not running, but I get some puffs and coughs, with back fire through the carb, with some visible flame at times... What could that be? Too lean to start?

Thanks for upcoming advice....

[Spokes]

Did you remember to rotate the cam lobe back to where it was at the beginning of this event? Gotta do that next! Gotta!

And maybe the plugs are bad. Here is a hard learned fact. A bad set of plugs will spark outside of the cylinder, but under pressure they won't or they may be weak.

Case in point. I was cutting the lawn last week. Mower engine dies. Can't restart. I go get a new spark plug and it starts first pull.

But check that cam lobe!

[srq68]

Yes, the cam lobe is next. I rotated is 180 last week already to try that, but since it's still like that, I will return it to normal position....

I'll get spark plugs in the morning.

Keeping posted...