2014 Frame Off Restoration
 

Hi Folks,
I'm new here and this is my first post. My name is Doug and I just bought a Benly 150 a couple weeks ago to restore.
I've not owned a motorcycle before but always wanted a classic. So I picked up this project for $400. I intend to restore it, get my license and ride it as a sunny day cruiser.
Having restored a 68 Firebird from a shell, I realize what I'm getting into. This will cost much more than buying something already restored and I'll blow my budget by 300%.

It's a hobby and I'm just here to have fun.

I'll post progress pictures and surly have questions. I've already tapped into the wealth of information you all have posted previously and thank you for it.

The bike has sat in a barn in Nebraska since 1974. The wheels were sunken in the dirt as it hadn't been moved or started in 40 years. It has bumps and bruises and I'll be replacing some body parts with less dinged ones.
I've since located a lot of parts on ebay, still needing a right side carb cover. Engine has been hot tanked and bored .25 over. New rings and pistons are here but I'll be needing a valve job before reassembling head.
Next week it's off to the chrome shop to have a dozen parts re-plated. Once the rest of the body parts arrive, it'll be off to the media blaster.

Just wanted to say hi and thank you for all the great information posted on this forum.
Doug

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5cfe3881.jpg
Brought her home on Dec 30th.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps400ac02a.jpg
All the wiring has been chewed by mice. Will need a new harness along with other electrical parts. Might need a new stator since the rodents chewed down so far on the wiring.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps6ae7f736.jpg
After getting the engine back from having it cleaned, it appears this could use a valve job. New valves ordered and back to the shop next week.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps1694825a.jpg
We'll see how bad the rust is once it comes back from the media blaster.

Hi Doug, and welcome aboard. Truly glad to see another restoration starting. It's been quiet here in the forum, so we're due for a new project.

Thanks for posting the nice clear pictures, too. Looks like a solid foundation for a restoration.

I see the wheel rims have seen better days - pretty typical for old wheels, though. Replacements are available.

Looking forward to following your progress. Don't hesitate to post any questions.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,
Yes, those rims don't look like they will polish out. You can sort of make out how deep they sat in the dirt all those years.
Love the documentation on your restoration, it's been very helpful seeing what you did, thank you.
Looks like ebay has a few rims in Thailand that cost less than the shipping.
If anyone has recommendations on buying rims here in the states at the same or slightly higher price, please post away with your recommendations. Will also be looking for some nice whitewalls.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb4ba92ff.jpg

I bought these rims for my last build
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-rim-1-...abd645&vxp=mtr
The original rims are 16 x 1.85. The rims above are 1.60 but you can't tell the difference,
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...pictureid=1015

There was one slight modification. The spoke holes had to be slightly reamed out. So if your have a reamer, or know a shop that does, these rims worked well for me.
Below is a pic of the bike with the Yamaha rims. This bike was a rusty white bike like yours.
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...pictureid=1051

Welcome to the group! Kevin is right we need a new project here to follow on the board...your is definitely a project...perfect!
looking forward to more pics.
Larz

Hi Doug welcome aboard! If you need any whacky parts just give us a shout here in your thread and you might get a response from one of us if we have a spare. Are you going with the white color? And what does the speedo read for miles travelled on that bike? That front sprocket sure has seen some miles so I'm curious what it has on the clock.
http://fourwheelperformance.com/phorum/icon_ride.gif

Thanks for the guidance spokes, I'm glad you mentioned that front sprocket wear, I probably wouldn't have noticed it.
Guess I'll be looking for one of those in the future.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psd60ed745.jpg
As for painting, leaning towards White as it's original color, but I sure like the look of those Red ones.

Doesn't seem like a lot of miles but I think it was rode hard.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps0036586b.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...pse9924a72.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf2d97ccc.jpg

I see you've already figured your speedometer out...

Yeah, I'm suspecting that Doug may have sold used cars in the past. :D

:)
Which reminds the ignition needs a little attention...
now if it will just go back together.
Think there is enough there to have a new key made?

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psfa0e835e.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psc195f9db.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps3eb25567.jpg

Send this guy the numbers found on the outside of the tumbler. He sent me keys for CA95 ignition switches in the past.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-nos-ig...330e84&vxp=mtr

DONE! Thankz, just what I needed.

For the original numbered key to work, will all those little pieces need to go back together in the same sequence they were originally in?

Yes sir, they do.
The four little tumbler pins shown below the lock cylinder vary in length and sit directly on the key cuts..
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8d0b422f.jpg
When the key is in place they should all be level.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2d691c71.jpg

Fortunately I had the broken off key to confirm their original positions.

The eight tiny ones (all the same size) fit in two spring loaded rows within the outer cylinder and are a real challenge when sliding the lock cylinder in place.
It was helpful using bearing grease to hold the parts in place and an Exacto blade to guide the cylinder in.
Spokes recommendation on where to get a key was great... the guy actually had the same numbered key which will be here next week.
Will see if this went back together the right way.

You did by more than one right????:p
I always try for at least two keys if/when I get/copy them. At least I have a locksmith buddy who can lose those small parts for me:o
L

I wish, he only had the one key.

Could someone please recommend a sprocket combination?

Since the front and rear sprockets are worn out and I need a new chain, what tooth counts would be a good match up for speeds under 50 and mountain driving?
Thanks!

Well, the "speeds under 50" part won't be a problem.

These little engines don't have a lot of grunt, so if I recall Sam's previous feedback correctly, its typically best to stick with the stock ratios.

The rear is 36 teeth, and I count 14 teeth on my original front sprocket.

The chain is a #428 The link count is 116 or so.

I buy the 428-120 and shorten the length. $12.99-and higher depending on quality from eBay.

Thanks guys... 14/36 sprockets and a 428-120 link chain it is.
Speaking of chains, is it standard to change out the cam and starter chains when rebuilding an engine?

All the body parts were dropped off at the metal stripper today. Fuel tank gets a chemical bath, the rest media blasted. $110 for everything.. not too bad.

Head is getting a valve job and should be ready next week. Hope to start putting the engine back together by next weekend.

In the meantime it's scrubbing little parts like the starter, polishing aluminum and reading as many of the threads on this forum as I can :)

Was this a green, white or red bike?
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps1c3ed338.jpg

That lower cover is going to require some help. Will break out the welder to patch in new metal once it comes back from the metal stripper.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb9dd19f8.jpg

Disassembled starter
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4dbfa672.jpg

Based on her "tan" lines, she was/is a white bike. These bikes came in red, blue, black and white.

And yes, I ALWAYS replace the cam chain. Starter chains are much easier to get to for repair. Both are 219 sized and master links are the same.
L

Got a few things done this weekend.
The starter went back together.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps667d9385.jpg

Oil pump was full of gunk and the check balls were stuck.
Bit of a panic briefly. I use a plastic oil change pan to clean parts in the garage then take them in the house and rinse in hot water.
When putting this back together I realized I dumped the check valve spring down the drain.
Thank goodness my wife didn't run the disposal.
With a flashlight and telescopic magnet it was found and retrieved.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...pscb9247d1.jpg

Here's some (not all) of the painted parts getting ready for the oven.
Takes 1 hour at 200 degrees to cure.
The head is getting a valve job, so MIA.
I'm replacing that top case, it's just too corroded and the replacement will be here in a few days.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps9e9ec5c6.jpg

I mentioned earlier all the wires had been chewed by mice so I needed a new stator. Picked one up on ebay but noticed a few variations in the way it's wired. Also the part numbers are different.
Wondering if I should splice the harness onto the old stator or if it's ok to use the ebay one.
What do you all think?

Notice part number's being different
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps86dd7837.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psca2e6e14.jpg

The key showed up for the ignition, it worked! Again... thanks for the tip on where to purchase NOS keys!
I'm guessing not all five of those indicator marks were painted red and will research what colors those dots were... also what the positions stand for.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps11b20bc1.jpg

Nice job with the starter. Did you give it a test? You can toss a set of jumper cables on it and hook it to a 12v car battery for a quick test - it should pounce to life.

The corroded part of the upper case would be covered by the carb shields, if you choose to use them. My engine was the same way. I'm assuming it was where the mouse nest rested on the engine. The mouse urine eats away the aluminum.

Regarding the 'wire ends here' portion of the new stator, I downloaded your picture from Photobucket and zoomed in for a closer look. If I'm looking at the same area, it simply looks like the wrapped inner windings - I didn't see anything that appeared to be cut or damaged.

These key switches are needlessly complex, serving as the headlight/tail light switch, too, among other things. Here's a picture of my switch, along with a shot of the manual that describes the settings. The colors of the switch dots aren't important, but rather the positions are. 2nd dot from the bottom is 'off', moving one dot up is the regular running position (with no lights), etc.

http://www.forths.com/blog/wp-conten...5keyswitch.jpg

http://www.forths.com/blog/wp-conten...hpositions.jpg

Great job! It's always a pleasure to watch another CA95 come back to life. I want to make an early suggestion regarding the clutch actuator. I struggled with stiff clutch syndrome with a couple of my builds, especially with my build from scratch project. The solution was to dress the "auger" portion with a burnishing wheel. Now my clutch is dream easy. So before you reinstall the clutch actuator mechanism make sure the "auger" portion has no sharp edges or burrs.

Hmm ... my clutch is a tad firm for such a tiny bike. Since I need to pull the motor to repair the kick-starter, maybe I'll give this a try.

What does your burnishing wheel look like? I use cotton buffing wheels, and wire wheels, but a Google images search on burnishing wheels turns up all sorts of different types.

Thanks for all the advise and suggestions!

BTL... that ignition diagram is great... very helpful, thank you.
So I did as you suggested and hooked up the jumper cables to the starter.... it buzzed to life... it works :)
Also, I beleive you're right on that winding wire, appears to be a factory dead-end wire. So I'll try the newly acquired stator in the build.

Spokes... I know this is a stupid question, but what is the clutch actuator? Do you have a picture or part number so I can look it up?
I'll certainly take the recommendation and burnish/polish any burrs off.

Also, here's that new front sprocket... much nicer than the old one. Amazing how much was worn off and the uneven wear.
At first I thought it wouldn't fit because the center grooves weren't as deep as the original, but it fits like a glove and has clearance for the sprocket plate.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps7ac7347d.jpg

The clutch actuator looks like this
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...pictureid=1081
I got this pic from ebay,

BTL,

This is the wheel I'm referring to:http://www.drillspot.com/products/60...onvolute_Wheel

I have a used burnishing (deburring) wheel you can have. It still has some life in it and you will need to use a bushing to fit your grinder/buffer. PM if your interested.

Tool & Die at the shop refers to this wheel as a burnishing wheel.

Hi Colorado, you need to be careful mixing crankcase halves, they are very hard to match.
When the cases come out of the casting shop, they are bolted together and line bored for the crank and gearbox holes.
They then go on another machine that trues the side mating surfaces for the clutch cover and generator housing.
I guess that every so often a tool will break and the machine will be reset Which will cut a perfect surface but not exactly the same as the previous one, two halves from different motors can be miles out, ask me how I know.:D
When you get the replacement top half, bolt the two together and check the side mating surfaces for flatness at the joints front and back then try again with the crank and gearbox in, these holes can also be miles out and the two halves won't seal.

Sam.:)

Very interesting, Sam ... thanks for the education. Doug, given that the upper case corrosion is purely cosmetic, and that the carb shields would hide the blemishes, it might be best to just stick with what you have.

Now I'm glad I bought the entire case (upper & lower)

The engine numbers are 2,893 builds apart.
CA95E-500-9717 (currently)
CA95E-500-6824 (new purchase)

So should I be OK using my internals in the new case?

Anything else I should look out for using a different case?

Thanks for the help... I'm going to need a lot more :)

I have to pipe up about mix & match parts for the CA95. The bike below
http://www.fourwheelforum.com/pictur...&pictureid=811

I built it from scratch. Not one part is original. The engine top is a 1965, the bottom is a 64, the head and cylinders are '64 a few transmission gears are '62. I took 3 bad engines, a 1962, 1964 and a 1965 and built one. I actually assembled the engine with old pistons with new rings and it ran. Later on (last year) I bored the cylinder, added new pistons, rings, wrist pins and a valve job because the engine burned oil. Now it's my daily rider and runs like a top.

Not to debunk Sam's advice of BTL's expertise, after all they out rank me in every way, but to point out that these little Honda's have a lot of interchangeable parts and Honda was/is the industry leader of production standardization. So swap away (IMO)

Ha, I'm forever a student here, Chip. I've only restored one of these little beasts, while half of them on the road today can trace their lineage to your garage. Good info.

Sounds like Doug is acquiring parts at a rapid clip, anyway.

That is a sweet looking bike..! That's awesome you built it from scratch!
Feeling better about this project all the time.

Speaking of parts... there are half rings (set rings) used to align the transmission bearings in the upper case.
Are there supposed to be four (4) altogether for upper and lower? Or just the upper case?
As I started pre-fitting things I could only find one of the set rings, so I either lost one or three of them.
I've since ordered two off ebay, which means I'll either have an extra or still need one.

only two required....;)

The new case showed up yesterday and as luck would have it they left one of the set rings in place... so now I have two extra's on their way :rolleyes:

Went to drop off parts to be re-chromed today only to find out the place I've used previously has gone out of business. There is no one in Denver that chrome plates anymore so I'm going to have to ship these parts out.

Sent the below picture to several shops across the country asking for quotes.

What do you all think these pieces will end up costing?

Do you think I'm leaving any pieces out? The headlamp ring is NOS, so I wont need it done.

Wondering if there are new parts out there that would be more economical to purchase than re-chrome.

Thanks for opinions/recommendations and guidance :)

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psc3494008.jpg

I have used:http://www.nashvilleplatingservice.com/ and http://www.brownsplating.com/

Nashville plating is less expensive but Browns plating is by far the best. Hold on to your shorts when you get the estimates. Chrome, nickel and hazardous chemical disposal has increased the cost of plating. I will guess in the $350-$500 range. The tank panels will take up most of the cost.

Buffing the chrome with gold rouge and a good set of wheels can bring out the chrome nicely. The bike I pictured above had no re-chrome, just buffed out and waxed.

But since you asked...IMO, I would not re-chrome the brake peddle. I suggest using this aftermarket kick start arm http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-C110-C...467d5c&vxp=mtr

I would shop for a clean shifter and lower fork covers and buy some chrome polish for the shock lowers and newly found parts above.

So plating the tank panels and handlebars will keep you in below $400. Be advised that I may be estimating low. I paid $380 for the same parts in 2008

I was going to guess $500, so it sounds like I was in the ballpark.

Are the handlebars bent? They appear so in the picture. You may want to straighten them before sending them for re-plating.

Yes, they are. I'm not sure if the right one is bent forward or the left one bent backward. What do you think?

Spokes, thanks for the tips on the chrome platers, I'm sending them requests for quotes as well.
In the back of my mind I was thinking it would be $400-$600, which has my shorts full to capacity.
I'll post back on here what I end up with.

Well the quotes came back in for re-chroming those parts, they ranged $600 - $760 :eek:
I think I'll reduce the number of parts to be plated.

The engine is starting to come together, just waiting on the new timing chain before continuing.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps20dad743.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa45adbea.jpg

Regarding the valves and setting clearance, can they be set using the feeler gauge between the back of the lobe and the rocker shown below rather than at the valve stem? It's just easier to get to with it disassembled.
Since I can see the back side of the lobes it's easy to line up then set the gap... is that the right spot for the cam to be on the lifters to take the measurement?
I'm sure you can tell by my questions I haven't done this before so appreciate all the help I can get. :)
Thanks!
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...psae0f57a6.jpg

Really coming along quickly - very nice. I'm not surprised at the chrome plating cost estimates. I had similar estimates, so it was less costly to buy tank panels that were in decent condition than to re-plate.

My thoughts on the valve lash measurements...

Once the engine is assembled and mounted, you'll have only one way to measure the valve lash anyway - through the adjustment ports. Besides, the valve stem is a flat surface rather than curved like the cam and follower, so you'll likely get a more accurate reading. It's probably best to avoid any chances of scuffing the polished surfaces of the cams and followers, even though the feeler gauge is fairly smooth itself. I suppose your method will get you close enough for an initial start-up.